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BRIAN FORD

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Member Since: 11/2005  Last Seen: 5/20/2012

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Don't overlook the messenger: 4 protesters show up at Apple store to deliver 250,000 signatures

Thu Feb 9, 2012 1:08 PM EST
technology, protest, apple, ethics, petition, apple-store, iphone, foxconn, ipad, mike-daisey
By Brian Ford
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So says Gizmodo:


There was supposed to be a protest at Apple's monstrous architectural annex in New York's Grand Central Station today. If you weren't looking for it, you'd would've only seen the usual commuter hell. But the protestors showed up. Four of them.

Two of the protesters organized the event and a third was Mike Daisey: Monologist. (See my interview.) It's not clear who the fourth person was. 

The signatures were delivered and then the protesters were told to leave. Loitering, perhaps? (It stands to reason that none of them would be caught dead spending money at an Apple store.) Creating a public disturbance? (The protesters were outnumbered at least seven -- maybe ten -- to one by the press.)

Who knows.

You could read the rest of the Gizmodo coverage but as with anything published by Gizmodo the writeup is several paragraphs of hyperbole and sensationalism that doesn't ever bother getting around to an actual point.

I guess it's up to me, then:

Four people. Total.

It's not hard to collect 250,000 signatures. (Pick a topic.) It's apparently much harder to get more than four people to back up that fleeting sincerity with a show of public action.

It's cold out and stuff.

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  • Public Discussion (17)
Brian Ford

This "protest" was such a non-event that Gizmodo had to fabricate some sort of controversy just to justify their writeup.

  • 6 votes
#1 - Thu Feb 9, 2012 2:04 PM EST
Bye

Interesting. I read your interview with Mike Daisey. Now, I have nothing to do with Apple or China or what-have-you but....the facts on Foxconn are pretty straight up. Apple would never get away with their "business practices" in China anywhere else in the 'civilized' world. Here's an American company that employs roughly 40,000 people in the USA and approximately 720-900,000 outside the USA. So, while Apple is so ingrained in American life we all play a part in the misery of the Foxconn worker. Used, abused, exploited and underpaid.....but it's okay.

It's okay Apple. We need your iPads and iPods and iPhones. Go ahead and let them commit atrocities in your name in China. We don't care. Screw them. We don't care. Just have my updates ready when I need them bitch. Third world commies. Treat them like the dogs they are....right Apple?....Apple?.....

Oh yeah...don't move your factories here to America and employ Americans. You'd have to pay them a decent living wage....a 40 hour work week....insurance!....and you would never get away with your inhumane working conditions and your totalitarian workplace. You just keep paying the Chinese a dogs wages and continue to get your tax breaks here so..... America can't even count on you for that.....

If I'd known about this protest I would have shown up.....

Because Apple has worms.....lots of them.

  • 5 votes
#1.1 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:22 AM EST
Brian Ford

Now, I have nothing to do with Apple or China or what-have-you but....the facts on Foxconn are pretty straight up.

I'm not sure I've read a bigger overstatement all week.

Apple would never get away with their "business practices" in China anywhere else in the 'civilized' world.

True.

Here's an American company that employs roughly 40,000 people in the USA and approximately 720-900,000 outside the USA.

Where'd you get those numbers?

It's okay Apple. We need your iPads and iPods and iPhones.

What'd you type your comment on? What do you watch TV on? I could go on, but...

We don't care. Screw them. We don't care.

You SEEM to care, anyway. What's your plan?

Oh yeah...don't move your factories here to America and employ Americans. You'd have to pay them a decent living wage....a 40 hour work week....insurance!....and you would never get away with your inhumane working conditions and your totalitarian workplace. You just keep paying the Chinese a dogs wages and continue to get your tax breaks here so..... America can't even count on you for that.....

Good idea. I'm listening. What's your plan for bringing Apple (and all the rest) back to America? Magical thinking?

If I'd known about this protest I would have shown up.....

I'm sure you would. Just like those 250,000 other people. If good intentions solved problems...

Because Apple has worms.....lots of them.

Clever.

  • 4 votes
#1.2 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:37 AM EST
Jay Butler

You have to love that typical Gizmodo headline that includes the non sequitur "world's most awful Apple store".

Apple would place itself at a huge competitive disadvantage by moving manufacturing to the US unless all other electronics manufacturers did the same thing. Apple stockholders would have the board and management team replaced in a heartbeat if they considered such a thing.

In the end, there would be no improvement in the lives of the Chinese workers. They would either be moved to manufacture products for other Foxconn clients like HP, Dell, Samsung, Sony, Microsoft or whomever or they would be laid off and return to more poorly paying jobs.

  • 3 votes
#1.3 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:29 PM EST
Brian Ford

It's a tricky issue. For sure.

The idea that the answers to something that developed over decades are "easy" is patently absurd, though.

This is a decades long fix, as well. Sometimes, reality sucks. But, it sure is better to face it than it is to scapegoat an easy target and hope that will somehow solve all our problems. I just can't imagine how it can possibly be a "good thing" that most people are currently left with the impression that this problem is somehow tied to Apple and Foxconn.

Relying on -- and fueling! -- mass ignorance to further a cause is dangerous.

  • 4 votes
#1.4 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:38 PM EST
Jay Butler

Simplifying the problem into an Apple/Foxconn issue does little more than generate page hits for the writers. And, of course, it motivates a whopping four people from a claimed group of a quarter million to show up at an Apple store on the opposite side of the country from Apple's headquarters. Effective.

A boycott by those signators would be a better way to actually express an opinion that meant something. But, where are they going to find a cell phone that was not built in China. Where are they going to find a computer? Televisions? Home theater systems? Music players? Home appliances?

  • 2 votes
#1.5 - Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:53 PM EST
Bye

http://www.outsaurus.com/2011/08/01/outsourced-apple-500000-jobs/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46143670/ns/business-us_business/

  • 2 votes
#1.6 - Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:47 PM EST
Brian Ford

I'm not going to go read articles hoping to figure out what your point is. Either make one or accept that I'm going to ignore your links.

I'm sure you can do it.

    #1.7 - Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:25 PM EST
    Bye

    You asked where I got my numbers. I didn't make them up. If you don't want to look then don't.

    • 2 votes
    #1.8 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:54 AM EST
    MatthewM

    You asked where I got my numbers. I didn't make them up. If you don't want to look then don't.

    If its so important, do the leg work and pull the quotes, citing the links.

    • 1 vote
    #1.9 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:11 AM EST
    Brian Ford

    Okay. I looked. Your fist link says 300,000 to 400,000-ish employees at Foxconn working on Apple products.

    I'm not sure how you define "approximately" but I don't think doubling a number counts.

    • 2 votes
    #1.10 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:15 AM EST
    Jenni-Oh

    Some fun math: Apple makes A LOT of money. (Selling millions of electronics from $500-$2500 and paying $130 a month per employee to make them will do that.) So much so they actually have more cash on hand then the United States of America.

    From the article: According to the latest statement from the U.S. Treasury, the government had an operating cash balance Wednesday of $73.8 billion. That’s still a lot of money, but it’s less than what Steve Jobs has lying around. Tech juggernaut Apple had a whopping $76.2 billion in cash and marketable securities at the end of June, according to its last earnings report.

    To give you an idea what that could buy: 2,050,000 American jobs at $36,000 a year. This would bring the unemployment rate down roughly 2.5 points. 1 company could have such a HUGE impact. Amazing.

    Amazing indeed.

    • 3 votes
    #1.11 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:21 PM EST
    Brian Ford

    Amazing, but also patently absurd. Do you honestly think that what is said in the last paragraph is realistic?

    So, Apple is to spend every last penny of its cash on hand hiring 2,050,000 people at $36,000 a year. Beyond the goofy idea that they should dump all of their cash to do so...

    What jobs are these employees going to do?

    Assuming you're going to say we put 400,000 chinese laborers out of work (at which point they go back to abject poverty) and bring all of those jobs back to the US, that's still leaves around 1,600,000 jobs that Apple has to create out of thin air.

    And, once they're here, magically eager and ready to do all of this menial labor, where exactly does this happen? Which manufacturing facilities exist here to replace the ones that Apple is no longer using in China? Apple is responsible for paying for those, as well?

    That's great, but they already spent every last penny they have hiring 2,050,00 Americans to do jobs that don't exist. What exactly do you think it would cost to build facilities that would be capable of handling the production of Apple's entire product line?

    It's almost hard to believe someone posted that with a straight face.

    Arguing sure is easy when you live in fantasy land. If we can just say whatever we want and expect that someone else has to figure out how to bend reality to make it happen, we could fix all of the world's problems.

    • 4 votes
    #1.12 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:31 PM EST
    Jay Butler

    It is also worth mentioning that Apple is a public company. Its cash reserves are not Tim Cook's little stash. That money could be returned to the stockholders in part or in full through dividends.

    • 2 votes
    #1.13 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:17 PM EST
    MatthewM

    An adult needs to confiscate the crayons from whomever wrote that article.

    • 1 vote
    #1.14 - Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:09 AM EST
    Bye

    #1.12

    Amazing, but also patently absurd. Do you honestly think that what is said in the last paragraph is realistic? So, Apple is to spend every last penny of its cash on hand hiring 2,050,000 people at $36,000 a year. Beyond the goofy idea that they should dump all of their cash to do so...

    I think they were just showing how much cash money Apple had by giving an example of how many jobs at a salary of 36,000 a year that would buy. They weren't suggesting doing it. Hence the "to give you an idea"....

    • 2 votes
    #1.15 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:42 AM EST
    Reply
    MatthewM

    Nice too see Apple are once again the bullseye for this PR crap.
    Why not go after Samsung, HTC, Dell et al? I guess because no one cares about them.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#2 - Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:09 AM EST
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