Citizen Journalism Thrives on Newsvine

Have you given up because of the popularity of what you deem to be "worthless" content on Newsvine?

If so -- you're part of the problem, rather than part of the solution.

I call it being realistic. If all people want is crap, then it's not a problem, It's just a fact of life. Oh sure, people on Newsvine love to complain about how crappy the mainstream media is and how much better the potential for amateur journalism is, but then they happily don their pajamas and give 60 votes to "These are my five favorite bands. [..] Discuss."

Cream only rises to the top in the minds of idealists. In the real world, crap floats better.

Well, actually, Paul does. In the last couple weeks he's written some very good, reasoned, political pieces. The most recent is the only that has surpassed 20 votes.

Brian, you asked a couple of rhetorical questions, one of which I find myself answering in the affirmiative, and then you answered it by saying the only possible result of saying yes is accepting your definitions. While you were being general, you did ask a couple of questions and then defined anyone that answers yes to be "part of the problem."

Obviously, that's your right, but given that I answered yes to the question and disagree that I'm part of the problem - or that anyone who says yes is - I felt that this being an open discussion, that I was free to state my disagreement.

So I did.

I realize the intention of this post was to show how amateur journalism does work, and how it works particularly well on Newsvine (sometimes) and that's great, I don't want to rain on that and had no intention of commenting on the article itself. I simply answered the question you asked in a comment, even if rhetorically, and I thought you'd be ok with that.

If I knew you were going to get mad about it, or that you felt pessimism isn't welcome on your articles, I would have refrained from commenting at all. I respect you so much more than you know, that I'd do that for you.

I wouldn't do that for hardly anyone else, and since the last time we debated this issue, I haven't said a single word about it until today. I haven't gone on to write articles deriding all the crap I see on Newsvine precisely because it's not constructive. But not all comments have to be constructive. Sometimes it's ok to just say "Yeah well, I disagree."

There are a ton of people on Newsvine I don't agree with that I don't respect at all, and a few that I do disagree with but also respect. You're one of the latter, for what it's worth.

As Eric kindly said, and as to your own kind comments - both very much appreciated, nothing means more to me than compliments about my writing - I've soldiered on since we last discussed this. I haven't complained once, and though I took a long break after the LVS contest, I'm back, and still giving it everything I have to give.

But that doesn't mean that I'm not going to speak my mind on this issue when I feel the need to. I hope you'd feel the same way. Note that I've never once told you that, because you disagree with me, to take your optimism and go someplace else with it.

I'd never do that, and I think that's just as nonconstructive as anything I've done or said here today.

I genuinely enjoyed your article and I voted for it this morning along with my comment, but I think you're reading way too much into this. Given that I haven't spoken on this issue since the last long debate - months and months ago - I don't think it's fair to characterize my single comment as "talking about it incessantly."

I'm just tossing in my two cents like everybody else.

But - yeah, I do often wonder why you're so worried about what people (who are clearly less capable of you) write about.

I'm not worried about it at all, that's just how I am. I debate and engage everything with passion and it just seems to come off as over aggressive obsession, when it's really not. At least it's not intended to be. Not enough schooling in discretion as a kid I guess.

And yes -- I do realize you've not been saying much negative, lately. Therefore, I consider you to be a part of the solution. You're writing great content with a lot of thought behind it.

Thank you, as are you. As I like to say, I'm just glad I spelled my name right.

But, I'm free to think they'll just continue to "not" be part of the solution.
;)

If there's one to be had, you'll be at the forefront, and I'd love to be a part of it. I'm simply a terminal pessimist, and this exchange with my friend whom I haven't spoken to in a long time seems appropriate. "Dock" is a nickname I've used on IRC for a long time. (no promises on formatting)

(02:56:56am) <Astrodog> It WAS adam Carolla. I impress even me!
(02:57:09am) <Dock> I never impress myself.
(02:57:14am) <Dock> My standards are too high.
(02:57:30am) <Astrodog> Set lower expectations. You'll never fail.

'Have you given up because of the popularity of what you deem to be "worthless" content on Newsvine?

Have you given in to writing the sort of crud that you dislike -- or have you stopped writing altogether?'

Absolutely not!
I've written 35 articles for Newsvine. And seeded only ONE link to a story. Not all of articles received votes. This is no big deal to me. However, I try to do three things before writing an article:

1) I try to pick a subject with a broad market.

2) I try to vary the subject content. I don't stick to one type of subject, such as politics. I'm all over the place. Science, God and the Internet, Iraq, Deal or No Deal, Going to Mars, etc. You name it. I've probably been there. This keeps you from being pegged as a certain type of writer, or if you will, Newsvine Columnist.

This idea of a press pass is a good idea. I may apply. There's lots happening around Seattle...

3) On each article, I give it the best I've got. Whether or not the article is 'good' is totally up to the readers.

Good piece, Brian. As you know I'm a big fan of citizen journalism. I've even tried a few new things lately like rather than just interviewing an author by email and posting author instead asking if others want to become part of that process, by choosing, say, the questions.

There are loads of stories any of us can do as citizen journalists at any time. For a while I was even throwing out story ideas ( I think I called it my idea factory) because I was having more ideas than time to follow up on them.

One quick example comes to mind: Harry Potter parties. I bet most of you have a big bookstore or library that is going to do a Harry Potter party. Why not do what I've done and will do again this time, namely attend the party and cover it. I bet it'll be loads of fun.I know I'll have a blast and that it will get readers.

Is that serious or useless journalism? Does it matter? It's a legit story and who better to tell it than us, especially those of us who love the books.

I think Newsvine has a place for both fun, fluffy stories of the "If I could punch a writer for his book I'd punch..." along with the navel gazing meta pieces ("If Newsvine was a fruit what type of fruit would
it be?) along with the serious stuff.

When Killfile recently wrote his story expressing concern about the future of Newsvine I used the analogy of a newspaper. There are the serious stories and the opinion pieces (and we can and do those well) but there is also the comics page. There was a spate of "useless" stories that scared the bejesus out of some but I view those - and some were mine - as being like the comics pages. If we want Newsvine to become part of people's daily routine than why not meet of their needs? Not just a place to go to rant and read rants on Bush and Libby but also a place to share your pet peeves to admit to your obsession with ducks, however fowl that might be.

Oh and press passes ARE overrated. I've been in the political
conventions and the real news is outside and how they are treating those on the outside. If you want to see what happens inside you can watch that on tv/ The real story, the one Newsviners can get better, is to interview and videotape the protestors or the people going in and out of the convention. Or the residents whose lives are affected by the conventions.

This is not say I'm not excited for Corey and Viki. But Corey didn't need a press pass to do his work and for 99 percent of the stories we can do we don't need one either.