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Rains on a Mother@!$%#in' Parade

The child in the middle grew up to hate "Snakes on a Plane" and one of the two other children now thinks he's an elitist: Rifts in a mother@!$%#in' family.

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Note: Article had been manually "bleeped" to give the Newsvine team time to fix a bug which did not "auto" bleep it on certain sections of the front page. I'm not sure if the bug is fixed, but this article is no longer featured anywhere so the title is back in all its mother@!$%#in' glory.

The time is now 12:00 PM on Saturday, August 19th, 2006. I have yet to see Snakes on a Plane. Not only have I not seen it -- I have absolutely no interest in doing so: I am a mother@!$%#in' party pooper.

In fact, I've been branded "elitist" by my own flesh and blood because of statements I made about the movie.

(In all fairness -- What I said to provoke such a rebuke certainly came out wrong. You can read the discussion here.)

With that in mind: I am no elitist. I have what most people would consider to be poor taste in music -- guilty pleasures plague my iTunes library. I often prefer young adult fiction to more "adult" fare when it comes to literature. (Though, both have their place in my library.) I enjoy reality television as much as the next guy -- if not more so. (So You Think You Can Dance: Not as good this year as last.)

I simply have a view about a movie that is contrary to most other views, even though I've never seen it. In my defense -- all of the positive hype also resulted from people who hadn't seen the movie. If it's possible to love a movie before it's released, it's also possible to hate it: Hype can go either way.

My flaw in our previous argument was in sounding as though people are "wrong" for enjoying the experience. As such, I take back any aspect of my argument that sounded like a condemnation of those who wish to see the movie. I will also withhold any view about the "goodness" or "badness" of the movie itself. While I certainly have a feeling that it's not that great -- I can't say one way or the other as I don't think I'll ever see it. I believe that people will have a hell of a time during Snakes on a Plane: I just don't know that said time will have anything to do with the movie itself.

Opinions are apparently divided. (The "fresh" tomatometer rating of 62% was a slightly higher 65% as of yesterday.)

So, what am I left with? Predictions.

Before I get into that: I'm disgruntled with the way this movie was marketed. It was most certainly brilliant on the part of the studio -- but I don't like the precedent it sets.

From Wikipedia:

Cult film is a colloquial term for a film that has accrued a small but devoted group of fans, having failed to achieve fame outside that group. Sometimes, the group is bound to the film by a shared sense of ridicule for it, rather than artistic merit. Characteristics of cult films are soundtracks that aren't temporary, a fake science created for the film, and particularly strange characters.

There is also a subsection for "So Bad It's Good" films:

Many films enjoy cult status because they are seen as ridiculously awful. The critic Michael Medved characterized examples of the "so bad it's good" class of low-budget cult film through books such as The Golden Turkey Awards. These films include such financially fruitless and critically scorned films as Mommie Dearest, Cool as Ice, Boxing Helena, and Showgirls, which have become inadvertent comedies to film buffs. Movies have even achieved cult status by successfully imitating the awfulnesses of so-bad-it's-good movies (The Lost Skeleton of Cadavra and Amazon Women on the Moon being just two examples.)

It is arguable that Snakes on a Plane fits into the above category. (It's certainly gained that reputation over the past few months.) The trouble is: The humor isn't really inadvertent humor, and it doesn't appear to be an attempt at satirizing or imitating the "so good it's bad" forumula.

The question: Can a cult-film be manufactured?

My view is that cult film status comes about through earning said reputation. Audiences go in expecting one thing (or nothing at all) and come out completely changed. The immediate goal is to get other people to see the wreck that you've just sat through. Over time, word-of-mouth (regarding poor quality and unintended watchability) means a movie builds an audience. In many cases, the movie will fail utterly at the box-office only to find it's way into our hearts on DVD. Drinking games are formulated and midnight screenings are planned. Best case scenario: MST3K finds the movie before we do and makes it even better.

You can call Snakes on a Plane a lot of things: "Cult Film" isn't one of them, in my view. The minute the studio embraced the awfulness of the movie it created -- I ruled it out. When I saw ads celebrating the type of badness that an audience is supposed to exploit -- I became even more suspicious.

If we can criticize the summer blockbuster for being a store-front for merchandising -- I feel we can justifiably question the decision to market a movie as a cult hit before it's been seen by anyone outside the studio.

Something just feels wrong about attempting to "create" something that has (in the past) been stumbled upon by luck. (And by "luck" I mean that if it weren't for cult status -- these movies would have nothing.) Writing a movie that is intentionally bad enough to be revered throughout time as a cult classic probably isn't an easy thing to do -- hence my suspicion that this movie isn't bad enough to be so bad it's good. (In other words: It's not bad in the right way.)

As for my mother@!$%#in' predictions:

  • Snakes on a Plane will prove to be a massive draw on its opening weekend and will almost certainly take the top spot.
  • I do not believe it will have the staying power of a typical cult film: After the first two weeks, audiences will dwindle and repeat attendees will not be a big factor in its overall earnings. The "slow-build" will be negated by the firecracker effect: An explosion that is over as quickly as it started.
  • Lower than hoped for DVD sales: Snakes on a Plane is going to require the experience of a movie-theater for any success it will garner. The appeal of owning a cult-classic on DVD is that you can show it to someone who hasn't seen it -- which is usually quite a large audience. (American Movie is a perfect example: I own it so that I can show it to people who haven't seen it and thus far -- that's been most of the people I know.) Everyone who wants to see this movie will have seen it before it's out on DVD -- likely on opening weekend. No one will be left to "introduce" to Snakes on a Plane once it's out on DVD and thus there will be little point in owning it.
  • This would mean that the marketing campaign was a masterstroke for opening weekend -- and a mistake concerning it's long-term earning prospects.

Of course, all of this is said with the assumption that the movie really is so bad that it's good. If you happen to love the movie and/or think it's quality entertainment that exists outside of "cult" status: We may have the first example in history of a reverse cult classic: A movie that strived to be bad but that managed to catch the quality boat.

I simply don't believe that such a film will be remembered for much of anything, in the long run: "Movie that's good enough to not be bad" just doesn't roll of the tongue like it would need to.

The Mother@!$%#in' Conclusion.

This much is certain: The hype can't be separated from the movie itself. The experience surrounding it may actually be more important than what is projected onto the screen. For some, the hype was a good thing, and for others (me, apparently) it had the opposite effect.

Defending or attacking Snakes on a Plane on the basis of merit is probably pointless for the moment: Those who expected to love it will love it, and those who expected to hate it will hate it -- minds are not likely to be changed.

Experiment: For those who feel the movie succeeds beyond the hype and the "experience" of watching with an audience full of like-minded SoaPies -- go see the movie again in a few weeks: Early in the day so that there isn't a crowd. I suspect that both are more important than you think.

My feeling is that the team behind Snakes on a Plane was unwilling to wait and see whether or not their movie would rise to cult status -- and decided to spike the punch in an effort to get the party started.

The gamble has paid off -- for now.

My last prediction: 5 years from now, Snakes on a Plane will struggle to sell from the $5 discount rack -- true cult classics will continue to make a splash on DVD.

For what it's worth, despite the "initial" brilliance of the marketing team behind Snakes on a Plane, they made a huge mistake: This movie is a perfect candidate for the "Non-existant DVD/Theatrical Release Window" model. Snakes on a Plane should have been available for purchase in the theater lobby. Anyone with a valid ticket stub should have been given the opportunity to leave the theater with "Snakes on a DVD" as well. (A mail-in-rebate for the movie would have also been a good idea -- "opening weekend only, only, only!")

If they're going to make their entrance with a bang -- they may as well have milked the mother@!$%#in' moment.

  • 22 Votes
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8.7
{"commentId":257700,"authorDomain":"jcroft"}

Wow, the elitist comment really got to you, huh? Relax, man, it was a joke. :)

I did see the movie, and I'm not going to make any bold predictions as to wether or not it stands to be this generation's Rocky Horror Picture Show. It certainly has more potential to become that than any other movie released in the last 10 years -- but that doesn't mean it will.

There's no doubt that the experience of the movie is half the fun -- maybe more than half. I don't disagree with you at all on that point. What I don't understand is why this bothers you. What's wrong with making a movie for the experience of it? What's wrong with people going to see it for the experience? What's wrong with you that you can't let your hair down and enjoy the experience, as well? :)

You're right, you do have several guilty pleasures. So why are you so unwilling to accept that Snakes on a Plane could serve the same purpose for you? And it's not just SoaP -- you've done this several times (Four Rooms comes to mind).

It just seems like you're unwilling to appreciate a lot of pop culture simply on the basis that it's mainstream. Everyone likes it, so I'm not going to. Everyone's excited about that movie, so I'm going to refuse to see it.

Pop culture needs to be judged for what it is. SoaP is definitely not a great piece of art. That new Fergie song is not a great piece of music. But, they weren't intended to be. They were made to be fun, and they're wildly successful at it. It's not fair to hold SoaP to the same artistic standard as the latest art film showing at the local indie theater.

I don't think a cult film can be manufactured, either. But I also don't think this one really was. SoaP would have just been Anaconda if not for the fans online. The fans online got behind the movie, and the studio came back in after the fact and made a few changes (like adding Sam's now-infamous line) to give the fans what they wanted. I don't really think that qualifies as "manufacturing."

And that's the bottom line about the film, for those who haven't seen it. It's full of blood, gore, nudity, special effects, and offensive jokes. It goes everywhere you think it should, but most movies don't dare. It's over-the-top, off-the-wall, and mostly ridiculous.

And that's exactly what I wanted it to be.

{"commentId":257700,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"jcroft"}
  • 7 votes
Reply#1 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:02 PM EDT
{"commentId":257715,"authorDomain":"brianford"}

It certainly has more potential to become that than any other movie released in the last 10 years

That's a bold statement -- I suspect that people who are "into" this phenomenon will have some in mind.

I'm not "bothered" that you said elitist so much as it made me want to try and articulate why I don't want to see the movie and why I think it will ultimately fail the test of time.

I still think that one has to accept that hype and build up to a movie is just as likely to make a person lose their taste for it as it is to wet the appetite. Napoleon Dynamite is a great example: I can't really articulate "why" I wouldn't like it -- my mind has just decided that I won't. I'm certain that I would not enjoy the experience of watching that movie.

At any rate - my distaste for this movie isn't even really about whether it's good or bad -- it's academic based on the way in which it was marketed and whether or not that interest will be maintained.

This is why I made predictions: This way -- people can come back and tell me how wrong I was when and if it turns out I am.

{"commentId":257715,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"brianford"}
  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:18 PM EDT
{"commentId":274101,"authorDomain":"somefool"}

why I don't want to see the movie

Yes, dont bother, or at least dont make any extra attempts to.

{"commentId":274101,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"somefool"}
  • 1 vote
#1.2 - Fri Sep 1, 2006 11:27 AM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":257703,"authorDomain":"brianford"}

I notice that "mother@!$%#in" in the title isn't censored in the front-page "featured writers" section -- but that it is in the "entertainment" section on the front-page where it's also listed.

Weird.

(I actually don't mind that it's "bleeped" out on the front page, or anything -- just noticing a discrepancy.)

I have "do not censor" content checked in my options.

{"commentId":257703,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"brianford"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#2 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:05 PM EDT
{"commentId":257721,"authorDomain":"rappo"}

And thank you for starting a "mother@!$%#in" tag... that will definitely be used!

{"commentId":257721,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"rappo"}
  • 6 votes
#2.1 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:30 PM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":257705,"authorDomain":"trmarch"}

Has it been overhyped? Probably. Is it enjoyable? Yes.

{"commentId":257705,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"trmarch"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#3 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:06 PM EDT
{"commentId":259833,"authorDomain":"betsy"}

I enjoyed it also, but I'll be quick to admit, I don't plan on seeing it again or on DVD. It certainly lacks the staying power of Napoleon and other cult-film classics.

{"commentId":259833,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"betsy"}
  • 1 vote
#3.1 - Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:04 PM EDT
{"commentId":274104,"authorDomain":"somefool"}

Napoleon left me cold, but I only hired that and didnt waste money in the cinema.

{"commentId":274104,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"somefool"}
    #3.2 - Fri Sep 1, 2006 11:29 AM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":257717,"authorDomain":"jcroft"}

    My flaw in our previous argument was in sounding as though people are "wrong" for enjoying the experience. As such, I take back any aspect of my argument that sounded like a condemnation of those who wish to see the movie.

    I just re-read your article and i guessed I read too fast the first time, because i missed this.

    So, scratch my question, "What's wrong with people going to see it for the experience?" But, i'm still curious, " What's wrong with making a movie for the experience of it?" and "What's wrong with you that you can't let your hair down and enjoy the experience, as well? :)"

    I, of course, don't actually think there's anything wrong with you. I just wonder why you sometimes find it hard to accept pop culture that wasn't made with the highest of artistic ideals, but other times (So you think you can dance?) you don't find it hard at all.

    Why is it okay for So you think you can dance? to be "just for the sake of entertainment," but it's not okay for Snakes on a Plane or the summer blockbuster you make reference to?

    {"commentId":257717,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"jcroft"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#4 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:22 PM EDT
    {"commentId":257725,"authorDomain":"brianford"}

    I just wonder why you sometimes find it hard to accept pop culture that wasn't made with the highest of artistic ideals, but other times (So you think you can dance?) you don't find it hard at all.

    I'm a man of complex emotions, Jeff. The sooner you realize this -- the sooner we can move past the hurt.

    ;)

    {"commentId":257725,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"brianford"}
    • 2 votes
    #4.1 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:39 PM EDT
    {"commentId":258021,"authorDomain":"carolynford"}

    I forced him to watch So you think you can dance. You can't help but enjoy it.

    {"commentId":258021,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"carolynford"}
    • 1 vote
    #4.2 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:48 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":257719,"authorDomain":"brianford"}

    I'm also interested in a timeline: When did people first learn of this movie? How did it take off online?

    I have to wonder how much of the "initial" interest were studio plants "seeding" interest.

    Which came first: The chicken or the egg?

    {"commentId":257719,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"brianford"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#5 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:24 PM EDT
    {"commentId":257724,"authorDomain":"jcroft"}

    Brian, read the Wikipedia entry for SoaP. It answers most of your timeline questions.

    {"commentId":257724,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"jcroft"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#6 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:39 PM EDT
    {"commentId":257726,"authorDomain":"pody"}

    I loved SLJ's interview on the Daily Show, and I really can't wait to see the movie... yes, it's probably the hype, but I still think it'll be hilarious.

    {"commentId":257726,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"pody"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#7 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:40 PM EDT
    {"commentId":257784,"authorDomain":"brianford"}

    Shoot. Changing my title while the bug is fixed did not do wonders for this article's visibility. It seems to have virtually disappeared from view on both the front page and the entertainment subsection.

    Ah well.

    {"commentId":257784,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"brianford"}
    • 1 vote
    Reply#8 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:17 PM EDT
    {"commentId":257811,"authorDomain":"mike"}

    Just restored it... sorry 'bout that.

    {"commentId":257811,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"mike"}
    • 2 votes
    #8.1 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:45 PM EDT
    {"commentId":257829,"authorDomain":"brianford"}

    Thanks. Hopefully, I didn't damage too many fragile souls before fixing the title.

    {"commentId":257829,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"brianford"}
    • 1 vote
    #8.2 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:05 PM EDT
    Reply
    {"commentId":257833,"authorDomain":"askrom"}

    Jeff asked "What's wrong with making a movie for the experience of it?"

    The answer is easy: if a lot of people see it, the movie studios will make dozens more like it, and "so bad its good" will be the dominant theme of movies for the next 5 years or more, much like reality TV was dominant for at least 5 years. Only when people sober up and realize "My God, what have I done? For years I've been pretending to have an IQ of 50 in order to be entertained!" will the studios finally wake up and start spending money on actually good movies.

    {"commentId":257833,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"askrom"}
      Reply#9 - Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:06 PM EDT
      {"commentId":258091,"authorDomain":"LAUHAL63"}

      Perhaps you are bitter because you got stuck with the pink Easter basket. The other boys look jubilant.

      {"commentId":258091,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"LAUHAL63"}
      • 3 votes
      Reply#10 - Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:39 AM EDT
      {"commentId":258362,"authorDomain":"brianford"}

      Even at that age -- I was secure in my sexuality.

      Though -- I'm not sure I can get behind your thought that they look jubilant.

      Jeff appears to be praying and my brother is clearly looking at the camera and trying to smile because his picture is being taken.

      I appear to be the only person -showing off- my basket.

      It's as though I'm saying:

      "Yeah, this is my mother@!$%#in' pink basket! I like it and I don't care if you don't!"

      {"commentId":258362,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"brianford"}
      • 3 votes
      #10.1 - Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:41 PM EDT
      {"commentId":259550,"authorDomain":"jasonford"}

      Jeff is praying. He is saying 'thank you for not giving me the pink easter basket.' I'll bet the guy on the end is still the best looking of the bunch. And as for you, you look more like your not exactly sure where you are or what's going on.

      {"commentId":259550,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"jasonford"}
      • 2 votes
      #10.2 - Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:55 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":258309,"authorDomain":"brianford"}

      I would also note that people who review this movie poorly are automatically accused of "not getting it" and "unfairly comparing it to better movies" etc.

      I think there's nothing worse than being told that you didn't like something because "you didn't get it."

      (Similar to when Dave Chapelle said that calling people "crazy" is the worst thing you can say to a person: It's dismissive.)

      I see no reason to believe that people didn't go in -- and see a movie that was no better or worse than any other silly horror movie. That is to say -- they saw a movie that wasn't as good as the hype made it out to be -- even though they saw it through the lens of a hyped-up crowd.

      Telling that person that they don't know what they're talking about or that they expected too much out of the movie is certainly just as wrong as saying that people expect too -little- from their entertainment.

      This is sort of why I said I don't like the precedence that has been set:

      It's far easier to hype a movie and build an experience around it than it is to take the time to craft a well plotted and timed thriller. Now that they know that opening things up to the internet does half the work for them -- we stand to be bombarded by half-assed crap that we'll love because of our pre-release involvement.

      I've said the same thing about the summer blockbuster -- I hate it when people say: Oh, it's just an action-fest with special effects and things blowing up -- it's not supposed to have good dialogue or a plot.

      And I say to that: What sort of bull@!$%# sandwich have we been fed?

      {"commentId":258309,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"brianford"}
      • 4 votes
      Reply#11 - Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:21 PM EDT
      {"commentId":258479,"authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}

      Brian, I'm with you. We are never going to get well made movies where more time and care were put into the movie than the marketing, unless we stop going to all the tripe that is currently released. As long as Hollywood continues to make money on garbage, they are going to keep delivering garbage. There is nothing wrong with a movie that wants to be a blockbuster and include lots of special effects and action, but put some care into it. There are good well made blockbusters, maybe not academy award-worthy, but well made nonetheless. Star Wars, Die Hard, The Rock are all blockbusters with lots of action, tons of special affects, but with some good acting, clever dialog and a decent plot. Movies like that are being made less and less often, and instead we are given crap like, The Fast and The Furious 3, Comic book movie after comic book movie, and Vin Diesel.

      {"commentId":258479,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"thevineofhob"}
      • 3 votes
      #11.1 - Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:08 PM EDT
      Reply
      {"commentId":258698,"authorDomain":"asterisk"}

      I just saw it -- had a good time. I'd give the experience a 3.5 out of 5 and the movie a 2.5 out of 5. It was pretty fun. Is it a cult classic? Nah, probably not, but who knows...I don't think I'll get the DVD.

      Still, it was a good time and a fun movie. I've seen a lot worse. It kind of reminded me of Starship Troopers -- a movie that I HATED the first time I saw it. About two years later I watched it kind of casually with friends and realized that it was pretty damn funny. Now I love that movie. I don't consider that a cult film, and I figure SoaP will probably fall in that class of movies.

      {"commentId":258698,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"asterisk"}
      • 1 vote
      Reply#12 - Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:47 PM EDT
      {"commentId":259864,"authorDomain":"mcgillert"}

      Hilarious piece! I also have the same qualms about the movie.

      {"commentId":259864,"threadId":"37803","contentId":"332105","authorDomain":"mcgillert"}
      • 1 vote
      Reply#13 - Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:30 PM EDT
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